. . . it's like the redistribution of weatlth, but from the poor to the rich. It’s backward . . .Gee . . . that's just like Utica residents paying water and sewer charges that subsidize the suburban infrastructure. Or the New Hartford School District agreeing that payments in lieu of taxes can be used by a big developer to build roads in his development . . . Can we expect New Hartford Teachers Association picketers protesting at the next Water Authority, or OC Legislators, or NH Town Board meetings to protest these redistributions of wealth? They might have an impact locally.
I didn't think so.
"The middle class was built by unionists, people who organized and fought for fare wages and affordable health care. To undo 40 or 50 years of hard work by labor unions, really undoes the American Dream,” said Jaime McNair, president of the New Hartford Teachers Association.Wow, what propaganda! If this is what is teaching our children, no wonder why everything is so screwed up. What built the middle class was Freedom . . . where people were free to try new things with a minimum of government intrusion and taxation . . . with those finding success eventually employing others raising their standards of living. It is no coincidence that powerful unions seem to be located in high tax states where the economies are in the worst shape . . . Places like Michigan . . . and New York. Unions are an anachronism in this day of modern labor laws.
Want better wages and better treatment from employers? Encourage more employment with less taxation, less regulation, and less unionization. When enough employers come into an area and start competing for the same labor pool, wages will go up to attract workers and treatment will improve. Even government wages would have to go up. . . . and the public will go along with it because they will be making more too.
The unions are not interested in the workers, they are interested in the political power that the workers can give them.
25 comments:
Talk about propoganda! The working class in this country was exploited by the rich for decades until working men & woman finally stood up & organized to demand a decent wage, humane working conditions, an end to child labor, etc. And if the workers are giving unions political power, then yes, it's what the WORKERS want. You afraid of that? And please spare us of the freedom built this country feel good crap. We're not living in the 18th century anymore. Guys like you hate unions because they don't back your right wing political leanings. This is all really about payback against union political activism isn't it?
Once upon a time, Unions were needed . . . they were the "tea parties" of their day ... People coming together to fight clear wrongs. They achieved their goals.
But then they perpetuated their own existence, not because they were needed, but for mere power. They became just as corrupt as the mill owners they railed against. Monopolies, be they corporate or union, cannot be allowed to exist except in very limited and highly regulated circumstances.
Yes, it has a lot to do with politics when the political position is poison to the well being of the country.
Workers' freedoms are restricted by unions. Someone should not be *forced* to join a group to become part of a trade or profession, but that's what happens with unions. Joining a union is NOT what all workers want... but unions have used their political power to impose that requirement on whole classes of workers. Unions have become the new slave masters.
The teachers union, for example, has taken the professionalism out of the profession. Many good, dedicated teachers are pressured by their unions to refrain from doing things their professionalism tells them to do . . . like put in a few minutes after school to help a student. Parent volunteers are sometimes turned away from schools because unions insist that their members have to perform the function.
One only has to look at the results of unionism to know whether it is a good thing or bad. Where is the economy vibrant? Not in union strongholds. Most people found they did better without them . . . which is precisely why the numbers of union members declined for years and years.
If workers Want to organize, that's fine and they Should do so. There are circumstances when that is necessary. . . but Unions need to stop shoving their will down everyone else's throats. That infringes on MY freedom.
Looks like anon1 drank the kool-aid and is a lost cause. Strikeslip is right on this one.
The tteachers union has created ab unchecked monopoly, the very thing Anonymous rails against. One just hopes he or she is not a teacher. If he or she is, the post is a grand statement for supporting school choice and ending union domination of the teaching profession. The other point of consideration is that giving teachers collective bargaining rights grants them unfair practices against the taxpayer. Collective bargaining is another term for ever growing benefits for several reasons. Hiding behind a mantel of reform that was needed a hundred years ago is silly, at best. Today's public service union workers are the spoiled brats of modern society and teachers head the class. Our educational system has and does work best when merit and competition are part of the education formula. Why does one think Obama other elites in our society send their children to private schools which are non union.
How much are the union heads of the NEA and NYSUT and their staffs paid? Its time to tax those rich fat cats. The dues paying members of the teaching unions are being had and used as unwitting pawns in a money grab that is the equal of Bernie Madoff.
Good post. Part of the union posture is dictated by the top heavy administrative leadership within the unions. Kins like the top heavy admininistrations in the schools.
I always lament the confusion of unions and workers' rights. Strike and others are correct that unions have grabbed too much power. Strike is wrong that "modern labor law" is the salvation of the working man and woman. Laws formulated by our rulers who don't live on my street. They don't even drive by and wave. It is only through a collection of brother workers that I can attain any power to get what I deserve for my labor. Should I expect my government to do that for me?
Ah, I remember being ahead of the curve on the regressive nature of forcing the average $30K a year resident to pay taxes for $60K teacher incomes five years ago. Unionists get very upset when people mention these things. I guess they have a lot of time to comment on blogs, too.
Unions became a negative as soon as companies decided that outsourceing to China was better than paying union employees. For federal unions, that point was when Reagan had to fire the PATCO members for an illegal strike. It was also the last time the National Debt was under $1 trillion.
I can no longer contribute to my IRA. I can not afford to pay my out of control local, state and school taxes and fund MY retirement fund . My taxes are funding our politican and public sector retirement funds and I am forced to contribute to their retirements but not my own.
Strikeslip is a union member & enjoys all the benefits that his union negotiated for him. But he rails against that same union. What Strikeslip wants is the benefits that he enjoys without paying dues to his union or being a member. That's called hypocrisy in my book.
Per Wikipedia: "Hypocrisy is the state of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have, or applying a criticism to others that one does not apply to oneself. Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie.". I have not deceived anyone, and I'm not applying a criticism to others that I am not applying to myself. I am not criticizing other union members for belonging to a union.
Joining a union without duress and then railing against the union would be hypocritical.
Agency shop laws, passed at the behest of unions, have deprived me of the right to be a hypocrite!
Baloney. What agency shop laws have done is prevent people like yourslf from benefiting from union negotiated benefits such as health care without having to assist the union in doing so by paying a few dollars in dues.
The issue is not Strikeslip. The issue is the question of public service unions bankrupting our governmental budgets which, in turn, are taxpayer funded. The end result is exactly what has happened and continues to happen in high tax states and cities; people vote with their feet.The union position,featuring the teachers union, is one of, let them eat cake. The public has finally had it. Whether one be a union member or not, financial realism must be recognized and practiced.
Wall St. caused the economic meltdown which resulted in massive unemployment, a huge demand on social services, less tax revenue etc., which has strained state budgets. So now public employees get the blame, {i.e. the middle class} while Wall St. greed mongers are relieved of any accountability. And the middle class is going to pay for the misdeeds of the plutocracy who run this country. There are hundreds of Madoff's who also should be sitting in a jail cell, but who instead recieved a taxpayer funded bailout. Greed rules in the good 'ol U.S.A.
Actually government leadership caused the economic meltdown by placing pressure on wall street to make loans to unqualified people. It's the same leadership that engineered the bailouts.
But public service unions have played a role too in those states where the public employees are doing better than the people taxed to pay for their benefits. That is why New York State lost its manufacturing jobs long before the current crisis and liberalization of national trade policies.
Had the unions been required to negotiate with their employers -- the people -- instead of in secret with government leaders, benefits would not have gotten out of whack. If people cannot afford your service, you go out of business.
Everyone (public and private employees alike) should experience the rise or fall of the economy. The public cannot afford to keep public employees as a protected class.
Balance needs to be returned to the process.
Oh what a crock. NY lost it's manufacturing base because of corporate greed. These companies want the cheapest labor that they can get. First it was the South & Southwest that they moved to. Until they realized that they can get even cheaper labor overseas using child labor, inhumane conditions, & all the rest of it which was how manufacturing was here until labor unions put a stop to worker exploitation. When you're ilk have succeeded in castrating all unions & thereby taken away worker's rights to organize & negotiate, do you think for one minute that these corporations are going to flock back to the good 'ol U.S.A. & rebuild our manufacturing base? No way. Not unless they can get away with going back to the same practices that they employ in China, or Honduras or any other country where thy can get their labor cheap off the backs of people who have no human rights. It's Wall St. greed that is also telling these corps to raise their profit margins & if Crporate America has to screw over their employees to achieve that, then so be it. So, blame the unions & the people they represent. When unions are stripped of all power, who will the next scapegoat be?
And will you explain how public employee unions are supposed to negotiate with the public? And what makes you think that public employees aren't also experiencing the rise & fall of the economy? Your statement about public employees being a protected class is just pathetic. Divide & conquer, is that the strategy of the right wing?
Negotiations with public employee unions are done in secret. They should be done in the open. The public is paying the bill. They should have an opportunity to weigh in.
My pathetic statement about public employees accurately reflects how many taxpayers -- especially those who have lost jobs -- feel about them. It's not divide and conquer -- its lets get along so both public and private sectors can survive and flourish.
NY lost its mfg base because it became too expensive to do business here and produce a product that was competitively priced.
If you are saying that we should have different trade laws to keep jobs from being exported overseas, I will completely agree with you there. Its part of our culture that we don't exploit children and we treat workers fairly. Companies should not be permitted to avoid our labor laws yet profit from selling in our market by exporting jobs overseas. You cannot have free trade where there are culture differences without losing your culture if it is the more costly to maintain.
We need unions to protect workers and keep a balance. But unions have to understand when they may have crossed the line and created conditions that lead to the elimination of their members jobs. In the manufacturing sector in new york, that line was crossed many years ago and is why there is little manufacturing remaining.
I hear complaints from some union members about exporting jobs overseas, yet hear NOTHING from union leadership about this. Where is the organization in that regard? Why no union protests about our trade with China? Why no union protests about the new trade deal with Korea that seems to disfavor American workers?
Protecting American jobs by protesting the trade deals should be job 1.
I think there are no protests because union leadership is more interested in political power, not the well being of their members.
How about the political power wielded by multi national corporations who are buying our elections with hundreds of millions of dollars in campaign contributions? The ammount in campaign contributions donated by unions is a tiny pittance compared to the above. This whole smear campaign against unions & thereby their members has nothing to do with fairness. What it is payback by anti-union power brokers against unions for contributing campaign money to Democratic candidates.
I repeat, where has there been a union outcry against all the free trade legislation that has sucked jobs out of this country and taken work from its members? If there, it is barely audible. But let a few teachers in Wisconsin lose bargaining rights over a fraction of their benefits, and it becomes a national issue.
The unions do not appear interested in their members. Rather, they are interested in destroying the capitalist system. . . . not a perfect system, but the only one that has a proven track record of doing the most good for the most people.
How can anyone support destruction of the capitalist system? That does not work out well for anyone except for the elites in charge.
'Destroying the capitalist system system'. Please spare me the right wing propoganda, scare tactics, & outright lies. Wall St. & the banking industry just about destroyed our system. Where's your outrage about that?
No scare tactic. You are being duped by your Union management Anonymous.
You have to ask yourself why the relative lack of union opposition to the free trade laws -- something that has cost many more union members their jobs than any of the goings on in Wisconsin. That should tell you that the union leadership really isnt interested in its members.
Insofar as lack of outrage at the banking system, it has already been pointed out that this was engineered by the politicians with the federal government. The outrage was expressed by the massive voter turn to the right. Until the rise of the Tea Party, individual citizens had no "union" to speak for them.
Oh, I didn't know the Feds engineered the near collapse of our economy & the worldwide banking system. Ok. The Tea Party is a "union"? Ha! The Tea Party has been taken over by scoundrels like Gingrich, Bachman, Kantor & their ilk who have ruined the original intent of the T.P. in order to garner votes. The T.P. has turned into nothing more than a farce thanx to the above & will soon become a footnote in history ala the Independence Party.
I'AM THE TEA PARTY......I'AM THE AMERICAN!!!!
THE ONLY THING THAT HAS TAKEN OVER ME IS MY FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!!!!!!
It it amusing to read of the pro union types condenming corporations. Where do they think jobs and employment come from? The accumulation of private sector wealth and economic activity is the basis of all employment. Without it there would be no government employment and no unions.
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