While it was nice to see recognition given to the new signs of life in the Uptown, Varick, Bleecker-Mohawk areas of Utica, the complaints about Downtown were a reprise of similar complaints last September when the lack of a drug store was seen as a problem.
What downtown Utica needs to create is something similar to downtown New Hartford. A few pubs and restaurants, some women’s clothing stores, a pharmacy and maybe a tailor and a shoe-repair shop. None by itself will draw visitors seven days per week, but in combination, they likely would.Downtown New Hartford???? At best "Downtown NH" is four-and-a-half corners and is really a neighborhood center for the Village of NH and for South Utica -- much like the other areas that the OD identified above. In fact, the entire village of New Hartford could probably fit within the area regarded as Downtown Utica. It is absolutely ridiculous for the OD to try to compare the two.
In the longer run, downtown might need more. A modernized Aud. A youth recreation center with ice and turf similar to one proposed by hockey star Robert Esche a few years back. And, someday, maybe a well-built and modern downtown stadium to serve high school, college and even maybe a pro baseball team. Dreaming for the long term is something Utica needs to do a lot more of.I hate it when the OD preaches to Utica leaders about what they should do, especially when it requires Utica residents to spend money that they do not have. Why should anyone in Utica listen to the OD? It has undermined the health of the city at every possible opportunity. OD has the nerve to tell Utica to dream while it has stomped on Utica's dreams for years.
A modernized Aud? Youth center with ice? Or a Stadium? Where does OD think Utica will get the funds from? The OD didn't write one word in support of then-mayor Julian's idea of SUNYIT putting its new field house downtown, even while other SUNY campuses were locating facilities to revive their nearby downtowns. In fact, it immediately wrote to squelch the idea.
I don't remember hearing any support from the OD for putting the Homeland Security Center or the State Data Center in Utica even though a large tax-exempt state campus sits in West Utica with half the buildings boarded up. Where's the push for Utica? Where's the outrage at the State-Slumlord?
Professional sports? What about professional hockey that the OD discouraged back in 2002, and discouraged again in 2005?
The OD pontificates, preaches, and points fingers at Utica, but, when it comes to Utica needing a hand, it does not lift even a pinky. . . . But it insists that Utica residents have to support regionalized sewer and water systems where Uticans lose more than they get back -- that Uticans must do this to enable the suburbs to grow their tax bases (while it erodes Utica's tax base). Where has OD ever told Uticans that Uticans are supporting through County tax breaks the very suburban developments that only draw more businesses out of Utica?
Over and over when the subject at public meetings turns to what Utica needs most, invariably someone mentions a new newspaper.
Utica's Downtown got the way it is over a period of many years. Downtown Utica's fabric was ripped apart by past 'improvement' projects that only made things worse. Can anyone remember 'Urban Renewal Project #1' 40 years ago and all the buildings that were demolished -- with many properties remaning vacant even today? How about the E-W Arterial, N-S Arterial, and all the 'improvements' to Oriskany Blvd that, to be sure, got traffic to flow better but which (1) ate up valuable land, (2) made some places harder to get to and (3) (poison for any 'Downtown' ) harder to walk to? It's OK to rip a city apart to shave a couple minutes off a suburban commute but what about the people and businesses nearby? They were invisible. Where was the OD when these decisions were made? Was there any analysis? Now the OD seems to think that government can create grocery, retail or drugstores out of thin air -- but it can only create environments that will hopefully lead to these things settling in.
If the OD is not going to contribute to Utica's well being with balanced in-depth analysis and reporting on its news pages, and sincerely advocate for Utica's well-being on its editorial pages (instead of taking cheap shots like the stupid comparison with New Hartford), OD should keep its mouth shut.
Uticans are tired of the OD biting the hands that feed it.
34 comments:
Wow. Great rant and analysis!
I don't know anymore what "downtown Utica" is, but what should have is a leveling of all stagnant buildings, and moving in some staple stores that people are willing to go through Utica to visit. Of course the population is not big enough to support two New Hartfords (I'm talking about the Sangertown-Walmart type of area, not the New Hartford-Downtown area) so I'm basically shooting down my own suggestion.
As for "downtown" Villagey-New Hartford... I wouldn't visit Utica if it had basically another one of those. I don't see a reason to visit "Cavallo's neighborhood" and none of my friends have gone there in a while. ("In a while" is somewhere around the ballpark of the past four years.) My shoes can't get repaired there, I don't wear women's clothing (nor do I have a wife or girlfriend... thank God), I don't get my hair cut at the barber there, and aside from my yearly optical appointment on 1 Paris Road, I tend to avoid that part of New Hartford. I've even forgotten how many businesses I've seen occupy that ex-Blimpie building down there.
Anyone else have a different experience of downtown NH? Or any business owners who conduct business there? I'd like to hear first hand what it's like over there at the "no left turn" inter-sorta-section. :)
The primary sin of the OD's obsession with "downtown" is that it obfuscates discussing the real problems facing Utica. Utica's downtown is basically dead as a retail center. As pointed out above, the population base cannot support major retail exapnsion or presents in Utica. And adding yet another coffee shop, restaurant or beer drinking event does nothing for the city.And, it is correct to lable the reference to New Hartford village a joke. Whoever wrote the OD editorial must have been laughing. Well, at least they have finally recognized that Utica can't be Burlington!
“What downtown Utica needs to create is something similar to downtown New Hartford”.
I never know New Hartford had a downtown, maybe a four corners, definitely not a downtown.
What is not mentioned is that downtown Utica has become ground zero for the deinstitutionalization of the State of New York.
When they closed the Utica Physiatric Center, among others, they resettled that population within the immediate downtown area. When the businesses left for the malls and new office parks, the not for profits moved in to service the population and now downtown Utica is the social service center for an entire region.
The O-D is blinded by a liberal bent that thinks; maybe because want to keep this social service Mecca that downtown Utica has become out of New Hartford, that the placement and the concentration to a point of saturation of an entire region’s social ills in one location is justifiable, because “we” are helping the downtrodden, our fellow man.
We now reap the consequences.
Do you know what you get when you load an area with the poor, the mentally ill, the drug addicted and the disenfranchised?
You get a poor, sick, drug addicted disenfranchised neighborhood of people that in and by themselves can’t even handle going to a restaurant, or buying clothing, or getting their shoes repaired.
The O-D is concerned about making downtown Utica more vistitor friendly. O-D, people do not even want to live there, why in the world would they want to visit it?
Amen.
What Downtown Utica really needs is an employment center that brings people in during the day to support amenities such as a drug or grocery store. This area has developed as a mass of suburban sprawl due to the transportation policies outlined in the article, and as such we are not going to be able to revive downtown Utica by attempting to entive new commercial development to move there. All of the new jobs that are being created or talked about are still out of downtown Utica, such as at Griffiss, or now SUNY IT. There is no incentive for anyone to go to downtown Utica if they do not have to. The reason Varick is becoming a success story is due to the fact that concentrated development has taken place, giving people more than one reason to go there makes it more likely that people will go there.
To fully redevelop downtown Utica it is going to take giving the people who currently live in the suburbs a reason to come into downtown Utica during the day, and then have them patronize any new businesses that spring up, as opposed to building a shiny new Rite Aid (I can visit one that is much closer to my house).
So far with the 100 new jobs coming to APAC, and whatever will come to pass with the Harza building we will see if anything develops, but it is going to be an uphill battle since people would still just drive directly to and from their parking space. But hey, I would love to see the day when there is a nice corridor to walk from Union Station through downtown and to Varick, connecting Utica's downtown.
I tend to agree with Brendan in terms of giving those who reside outside of the City of Utica a good reason to visit Downtown. I would also like to expand on this notion by having Utica give these same people a reason to reside within the City of Utica. Perhaps if Utica would clean up the corrupt political environment it has underhandedly cultivated over past, it could put a halt to the urban population hemorrhaging. And I agree with Strike in terms of holding the State of New York responsible for their neglect of the former Utica Psychiatric Center compound in West Utica. But where is the outrage from the City, County, and local State elected officials? Should they not have pointed this neglect out to the Governor when he ran right by this campus when he ran in the Boilermaker two years ago? Our politicians had no problem sucking-up to him as they jockeyed for position to stand next to him on stage at the finish line party.
Beans said...where are the leaders? You mean the same fools who signed a 25 years lease for $1.00 a year on the albatross drug and rehab center. Those people receive millions in funds. Why didn't they sell them the building for $1.00 and get out of the ownership and responsibilities. What are the annual maintenance costs for this building??
I have a business in "Downtown NH" It was downtown 30 years ago, before the mall and Wal-Mart, so why the OD refers to it like that beats me. Peters', Heller's, a pizza joint, the bank, a liquor store, etc etc. That made it a downtown IMO.
Myself, I'd like out of downtown anyway. The parking is just like in Downtown Utica, and the is a lot of congestion on the road. Only plus is the village keeps the roads and parking lots VERY CLEAN!
The village "crossroads" is nothing but that now. You get stuck at traffic lights just like in the City of Utica.
@ Anonymous 11:27 PM, whats the big deal with the no left turn onto Pearl Street anyway? I grew up in the village and it's been like that for probably 40 years. A lot of people turn there anyway.
The definitions of downtowns have changed as well as their locations. We, including the anacronistic OD, should accept that and move on.
A DIVIDED UTICA
For downtowns to survive, they need to have ez access by transit systems, or lots of close parking. The reason is lazy people who will not get out of their cars and walk a few blocks unless there is plenty of stimulation along the way. I watch in amazement in the malls or shopping centers as people drive around the lot trying to get a spot as close to the door as possible, when there are plenty of spots within an easy walk away. So, city "visionaries" tear down historical old buildings to provide a handful of parking slots. And that is why Utica has become a pockmarked, blotched downtown area that has lost much of it's character and dignity through the last 30-40 years.
The areas that still have an attraction and some traffic, are pocket areas like Bank Place, Main Street, Devereux Street and Varick Street which still retain some of the character and charm of the way Utica used to be. The areas where newer buildings have been put up, or where they were "uglicized" though urban renewal projects,usually have the least amount of foot traffic and attract seedy businesses.
The first step and most important step to restoring downtown Utica, is to take down that stupid bridge on Genesee Street that divides Utica into four seperate "islands" in downtown.
This would create a visual link to and from the thruway entrance, North Genesee street, and Harbor Point, and encourage development around the stranded Union Station, Childrens Museum and the insurance company.
There are thousands of guests every year that stay at the motels in North Utica that would probably enjoy walking along the sidewalks towards Utica if there wasn't a big imposing hump of a bridge there. Likewise, visitors at Union Station might decide to walk and mill around a little if that hideous bridge wasn't there. Ironically, one of the most important parts of Utica's history (Baggs Tavern, Ft.Schuyler) sits right in the shadow of this piece of engineering genius.
It would not be easy and would require some big bucks and some real engineering skills to "undivide" Utica.
Excellent point about the Genesee St Bridge! and the "stimulation" angle . . . and excellent points in general.
The harbor area is really a lot closer to Downtown than it seems because of the bridge.
This is where we need professionals with ideas for reconnecting the fragments of what was Utica. The "holes" in the city fabric have gotten so big that they will be difficult to mend.. . . But creating even Bigger Holes (like the proposals for the Arterial remake) is definitely NOT the way that we should be moving and needs to be stopped.
Is it really advisable to spend more millions of tax dollars on Utica's so-called downtown. To what end?
Spending more on downtown is advisable IF it can be reasonably determined that there will be a return on the investment in the form of more economic activity there. This can only happen if the "powers that be" on multiple governmental levels understand the role that they played in downtown's demise and reverse their bad decision-making.
From my perspective, they have not learned their lessons yet and we are doomed to more of the same: continued sprawl into the suburbs, continued increase of the public infrastructure that must be maintained, continued expansion of local government, continued increases in taxes, continued exodus of our young people and businesses who can't afford to stay here, continued decline in downtown, and continued urbanization of the suburbs (ie decline in what people moved there for.)
take down the bridge, did you forget about the train tracks?
I think that the other Anonymous intended to take down the new bridge and replace it with a much smaller one similar to what was there before. -- There was no portion of Genesee St walled off from what was across the street like there is now.
The od can't even run it's own newspaper properly. The paper is lucky to be alive. And it's a monopoly. And they're going to tell Utica how to revive itself? If the idea of the od telling Utica how to revive itself wasen't so ludicrous, it would be laughable. The od should get it's own house in order before preaching to anyone about anything.
With regard to the bridge; that is why I said it would take a little creative engineering and urban landscape design talent to pull this off. I don't know if a tunnel is possible???, but I would say that after they tore down the apartment complex it made rerouting North Genesee and tearing down the bridge a little more feasible. If the bridge over the tracks was put further over (closer to PJ Green) it would open up that whole area.
With regard to "pumping" more money into Utica...we have no choice if this area is to one day recover and grow again. Remember the apple rots from the core-Utica is our core. What is ridiculous is to allow our politicians to continue to throw more good money after bad, based on whims and pet project ideas that are not part of a well thought out and designed plan.
A project like this needs to be done before Harbor Point, because it too will most likely fail because of this "disconnect" problem the various parts of downtown-N.Utica have.
How is reasonable return on public investment determined in the matter of Utica's downtown?
How is a reasonable return on public investment measured anywhere? It is like when you buy something in the marketplace. Somethings are of a value to you that you are willing to pay, and others are not.
For me, a reasonable return is Downtown Utica resuming its former function as the economic center of the region -- what it was built for. Now we have too many "centers" that are spread out all across the area, and the "powers that be" are engineering more of them - like EDGE planning another one at the old County Airport so, I guess, Whitestown doesn't feel that NH has anything over it. Since the regional population is declining, it should be obvious that (1) we can't afford it and (2) we don't need it.
That's what I would call a reasonable return on public investment.
Platitudes do not makr for change, progress or realism. And, they sure don't make for market realism. The "rotting core"of Utica is a residential social problem, not a downtown issue. Commercialism means nothing unless the city has a strong residential base. That's where resources belong,not persuing a downtown concept that died decades ago. Strikeslip seems to forget that the Whitestown Park is already a regional employment center.I suppose Met Life,Bank of New york Mellon, Dameier Bus, Fiber Instruments Sales, Bonide, etc., don't need proper infrastructure support. Perhaps they'll all mlove into Downtown Utica!
Anonymous . . . The "rotting core of Utica" is not a residential social problem . . . it is a regional problem created by bad decisions at multiple levels.
Sure the businesses at the Whitestown park require a proper infrastructure ... no one said that they did not . .. but they do not require a new town center with retail etc that EDGE apparently thinks is cool. That only duplicates what we have elsewhere and is only more sprawl.
The residents of that "rotting core" of Utica funded all the industrial development in the Whitestown park through their county taxes . . . and enabled the development there by extending their water and sewer systems to Whitestown. They did so willingly because they ran out of land to support these types of facilities that were needed for jobs. It was people from Utica that put the old airport there to begin with.
But there comes a point to where you stop creating jobs and growing population and simply move them around ... we are well past that point and are losing both... as a region.
Now that Uticans have encouraged businesses and people to move out of Utica with their own tax dollars and water and sewer fees, what do you propose that we do with the "rotting core" of Utica? Let it die? You must live in the suburbs because you do not see this as your problem.
But it is your problem. Greater Utica is one economic entity whether you like it or not, inspite of the municipal boundaries that divide us. If the core dies, it takes the entire region with it. And if you don't believe that, you are not facing reality... the evidence is everywhere if you care to take your blinders off.
Strikeslip, you continue to mix, match and confuse. The combination of public and private resources can reverse neighborhood decline. Constanly harping on how and why conditions got to be where they are lends nothing to solution. The bus of urban sprawl left the station long ago. The question is how to create and where to place limited resources. The downtown is a poor public investment. Does one have to look further than the Hotel Utica? And, that was supposedly based on a market plan. The proverbial chimp would have known it was a faulty concept to begin with. Finally, your assumption that one does not recognize Utica's position in the area because one does not favor half brained spending ideas is both erroneous and condescending.We, meaning taxpayers from the region and beyond have thrown a fortune into Utica. We also support Utica's businesses when they attract. It is time to stop whining about how what should have been done and instead concentrate on the future in a realistic fashion.
WITHOUT UTICA-WE KEEP ROTTING AND IT WILL, AND IS, SPREADING OUT...
Good discussion Strikeslip, and a much needed dialogue on what needs to be done in this region.If ANON
would back up his rant with a list of communities that don't have a strong and vibrant city center, I would stand corrected on what needs to be done in this region.
Perhaps he is suggesting locating our new city center at Griffiss or Whitestown Bus. Park?
I can safely say that most places listed as the "Best Places To Live In The US" have strong and vibrant downtowns and city centers.
I own a business in New Hartford and live in Whitestown, and I can clearly see the negative business, and societal impacts a continually declining Utica presents to all of us within at least a 20 mile radius.
We need to relentlessly challenge ourselves and our leadership to address: "How Do We Fix The Biggest Obstacle and Problem This Area Has Ever Faced?"
Why is the definition of a vibrant city center being avoided? There is no city center if there is no residential stabilty in and around the core.No viable or major commercial development can exist within a sea of substandard residential development in both a physical and social sense.But, a short drive within Utica should make conclussions about concentrating resources pretty obvious.
I pointed to the decisions that got Downtown into the state it is in, and proposed that we stop repeating them. But that is called whining.
What do you propose, Anonymous?
Virtually all public and private resources should go into neighborhood infrastructure and social initiatives. Coming to grips wirh crime prevention, education and job and life skills training is included. Downtown of course should recieve its basic services but otherwise should be in the hands of the downtown business owners.No major undertaking of public expense should be made in the downtown projects or initiatives until if and when the true "core" issues are on the path to resolution. And, even then Utica's downtown has to be viewed within the realities of our new downtowns,malls, and a declining area population base.
Thanks for responding Anonymous. I appreciate your willingness to engage in dialogue instead of name-calling.
I can't disagree with you on coming to grips with crime prevention and putting resources into neighborhood infrastructure. Both are needed for our neighborhoods to come back.
Social initiatives -- it depends on exactly what is being proposed. The area already spends a lot of money on social services and it is the Tax Rate that is keeping good jobs away. Good jobs providing good incomes would solve a lot of the social problems.
Education/jobs/lifeskills -- we clearly already pay a lot of money for these things and seem to be getting less return the more we spend. Check out BOCES -- the worst thing the Utica school district did was to join BOCES. Utica had the population to support its own Voc-ed program -- literally in the students' back yards where they would use it. BOCES expands its empire on Middlesettlement Road with utica's help -- which benefits Suburban school districts -- while city children now stay away because they don't want to waste time on a bus... There was a significant drop in voc-ed students from Utica (where the need is probably the greatest) after Utica joined BOCES. Another bad decision that hurt Utica -- which needs to be reversed.
The topic was about bringing back downtown. Nothing that you have proposed (which is good stuff) will bring back downtown because nothing reverses the decisions of the past that undid downtown.
Any spending downtown must address those past decisions, otherwise it will be money wasted.
I agree. I should have mentioned the need for creativity and innovation. The same old won't work. There are a couple of interesting opportunities out there like Casandra Lockwood's training center concept and the Reverend Scates's programs. I'm thinking that the basics like "real" concerted crime/drug control, masssive paving, more small parks development and things like that would spur more creativity and commtment. We are in the midts of throwing away generations of people and places. My only contention is that downtown lofts, outdoor railings, facade loans and tax breaks to millionaires are the kinds of public resource uses that should be eliminated along with the jobs that ademinister the them.And, projects like taking down bridges have to wait until the city can be saved. It is that serious there.
I think we are coming into alignment, Anonymous. It's obvious that we cannot continue to spend money on the same old things and expect different results.
But I see big spending projects already slated that will do more of the same harm that was done in the past -- like the proposed N-S Arterial remake -- unless they are stopped and changed. The highway needs to be renovated because its nearing the end of its useful life... But it should not be renovated in such a way that it turns W. Utica into a wall or a no-man's land of asphalt and ramps turning W. Utica into a mere conduit for people to go from the suburbs to the Thruway or downtown. The highway should be renovated in a way that will do some good for the Neighborhood.
We are also spending public money to encourage the building of new Town Centers on undeveloped land in the suburbs -- instead of using the same money to remove the barriers to reuse of land in Utica. Public money is being poorly spent, allegedly for "jobs" but really only moving jobs out of Utica and into suburban areas to enrich politically connected developers and appeal to the vanity of small town officials. It wastes resources in the city -- and it ruins the quality of life in the suburbs.
The money that we are going to be spending anyway needs to be rechanneled to produce different outcomes.
Yes, the last thing we should be doing is checkerboarding jobs within the area with help from the taxpayer. But,cities such as Utica also needs the effective sites and infrastructure modern business demands. The Utica Business Park is an outstanding example of adaptation.
One thing I'm sure of is that coming to a concensus in this area would be virtually impossible. No one can come to a reasonable agreement on anything other than that there is a problem.
Even when an area like New Orleans was destroyed, and thought was given to relocating the city, the best minds in this country decided that they had to rebuild the city where it stood. Why? Simply because New Orleans is not only the heart and soul of Louisiana, but also a part of the fabric of this country. In San Antonio, a city built it's self around an important American icon, "The Alamo". Now, the "Riverwalk" canal district is teeming with convention goers and tourists. Need an example a little closer to home-try Saratoga, Albany or Boston.
Allow Utica to wither away and die, and along with that goes hundreds of years of culture, history and tradition. Perhaps to be replaced with a bronze marker on the "Busy Corner" that reads: "Here Once Stood A Lovely City".
Inherent in the sarcasm is the possibilty that Utica and the area is on an irreversable path of decline. The primary issue is not a specific plan or project but one of overall leadership. Can the population produce the quality of leadership necessary to halt the decline? And, that does not just mean political leadership. The other reaction to the post above is that the population demographics are much different in the areas noted. The implications of the differences cannot be understated or overlooked. We are collectively poor, old and uneducated compared to most communities.
Anonymous -- You may be correct that the Utica area is on an irreversable path of decline . . . but I would add almost all of New York State west of Albany to your statement.
The only reason why the Albany area is doing so well is because (1) it is the seat of government and is largely recession proof with taxpayer funded jobs and (2) we are now pouring huge amounts of money into its economy with nanotech -- more taxpayer funded jobs. Trying to extend such a model to the rest of the state would be unsustainable -- as we will soon find out on the national level since that seems to be what they are trying.
Again, it is important to understand how we got this way before we have any possibility of figuring our way out. For me -- and I've blogged about it several times -- the origin of the change in our fortunes was the reapportionment of the State Legislature in the 1960s. At that point, all state policy (whether it had origins in conservative or liberal thinking) became geared from the perspective of what worked Downstate. The constituencies that NYS founding fathers had hoped to cultivate and protect were essentially done away with by, I believe, a misinterpretation of the US Constitution.
I see nothing on the horizon that will change this... especially with what is happening now.
Sarcasm? Reread your posts Anon.
Call it Frustration...maybe a little apathy-and you're right on.
The business park you cited is half empty-or half full if you please. oops, maybe I am a little sarcastic.
Outside pocket areas, New Orleans was one of the poorest, least educated demographic areas in the country before the hurricane, that's why they were left in that dilemma for so long.
San Antonio was a poor, hot, dusty military town before visionaries decided to rebrand-market the city. I know because my Dad was stationed near there in the 60's and 70's.
Marketing 101.
This area has had this growing and snow-balling exodus-demographic-marketing problem for over 20 years and that's why I agree with you Strikeslip, that understanding our history and how we got here, is an important component of any attempt to rebuild the economy. And the history of this area has been fraught with one blunder after another since the 70's. Anon is right in that we cannot depend on Ro, Griffo or anyone else to be our sole savior, and that prominent businessmen and citizens need to step forward to help. When the Utica area faced similar dilemas, prominent Utica businessmen came forward to establish the textile industries, and then later I believe it was R.Elefante who helped negotiate the establishment of the aerospace industries here.
The very idea that our problems have anything to do with marketing is at best, suspect. Virtually all of the significant decline occured from 1995 on. The Base, GE( MM), Bendix, Chicago Pnuematic, Oneida Silver and a host of smaller companies left post '95.The reasons for the losses were complex and varied. The area was completely overwhelmed by the relatively quick shock.Leadership in various sectors was unprepared. One who was asleep at the switch in a major and harmful way was Boehlert. Now, we name buildings after him.
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