Wednesday, November 20, 2013

Honesty . . .

"We all knew. . ."
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So if you all knew, Ms. Gillibrand, that a promise was being made that could not be kept, why the silence?

Since no one was listening to Republicans, why did the Democrats go along with the lie that was being perpetrated?


Anonymous said...

I'll attempt to take the partisanship out of this. I'm a Democrat and I was totally opposed to this plan. I still am. I believed then, and still do, that we needed to either go all the way with a public option (e.g. allow everyone to buy into Medicare) or leave it alone.

However, when we break this down, let's keep in mind that it doesn't help that the GOP has done everything possible to make sure it doesn't work. The states that have worked hard to implement it have had a smooth transition. The ones that haven't have not.

Again, I still don't like it. And then we have the Monday Morning Quarterbacks like Bill Clinton. He was a huge supporter of passing this, even putting the full court pressure on members of Congress to vote yes. Now that it is falling apart, and his wife is running for President, he is backtracking.

Both parties are shot and it's all a big game of I Gotcha down there. None of them care about the people. They just pick sides on issues and fight, all while we keep PAYING.


Strikeslip said...

Obamacare is what results from one party rule because only one party passed it... There were many problems with this plan from the beginning, but there was no discussion or even time for discussion. The Democrats knew they did not need Republican support so it was rammed through, even though they had not read the bill themselves. They literally sold their souls to the devil (the Center for American Progress which wrote the thing) just so they could proclaim their "achievement."

Well the pigeons are now coming home to roost ... The problem is way beyond the outlandishly expensive and non-functioning website. The flaws in the law are cannot work like it was claimed because economically it requires people to lose their now "substandard" plans and replace them with more expensive ones to pay for the new entrants and new benefits like abortion. Only a handful of places, like NY, might actually benfit because NY had already involved itself on many issues.

Regardless,the Democrats own this fiasco and the Republicans should not try to fix it.

Anonymous said...

I agree with everything you jut wrote. And you're right about one party control. My problem is not in this particular argument, rather in the idea that one side (this time the right) hammering the other when they do it, but forgetting when their side does it.

The Republicans ripped our civil liberties away by ramming the Patriot ACT and Iraq War, etc. down our throats when they had full control.

I'm just saying that I agree with you on the issue, but don't like the singling out of a single party, even if it's true. The reason being that BOTH sides do it when they have the opportunity.

The one thing I give the GOP credit for is sticking (mostly) to their principles, even if I disagree. In the case of the Patriot ACT and Iraq War, even the Democrats crumbled under the pressure and bowed down to them. If Hillary never voted for those, we wouldn't even have a President Obama today.

I'm just so sick of each side's ground troops (us) falling for this game instead of realizing that the leaders in both parties are banging us over the head.

I'm at a serious crossroad right now. Myself and a whole block of other local Democrats, elected and former elected officials, are seriously considering a switch the the Republican Party. My only hesitation is the still powerful neo-con faction. I'm learning as I get older that I'm really more of a libertarian. I want government to protect me, help those that CAN'T help themselves, provide proper infrastructure that is based on the needs of the people and not private developers, and then get out of my life. That means my personal life and wallet. This is why I liked Ron Paul. That's the kind of Republican I can be and I think - I KNOW would resonate with my generation and bring back the party on a national level. This focus on social issues is killing the party nationally with every demographic other than middle aged hardcore voters and southern seniors. By all accounts, Obama should have been beaten last year. But he won pretty easily because Romney and the National GOP didn't even come close to speaking to the mainstream and youth. However, Ron Paul had a HUGE following among college aged and 30 somethings.


Strikeslip said...

I think many Republicans will agree with you, Jr., that things went a bit too far with the Patriot Act. And some on the right actually raised an alarm (Glenn Beck for one) about it. But post-911 there was real fear that blinded many to the possibility of intentional abuse of the new powers. Yet, in retrospect, I cannot say Patriot Act and the Iraq War were completely wrong. Spying on overseas communications with terrorists does not seem to be within 4th Amendment protections -- but collecting everyone's e-mails and phone calls is. And taking out Sadam seemed justified given the intelligence at the time (WMD, etc) that all the intelligence agencies including UK's, seemed to agree upon. The fact that UN inspectors (can we EVER trust the UN?) failed to find evidence of same -- 6 months later -- does not alter the fact of early agreement -- and does not alter the possibility that maybe the WMDs actually WERE there. We may never know.

It's funny that you mention thinking of switching to Republican. I've been thinking of switching to Democrat! Not because I like Obama and what the Dems are doing (I hate what they do) but because I have to believe there are still Democrats -- now grossly outnumbered -- that still believe their role is to protect the "little guy," the everyday person who just wants to live their life in freedom and not be controlled -- which you articulated beautifully (that's why we can discuss things!). The Dems, however, seem to have been hijacked by Marxists.

As for the Republicans, I really don't know what they stand for any more. I disagree with your statement that the Repubs stick to their principles . . . they have none now... especially when they attack their own members like Cruz, Lee and Palin who stand for what were their principles (Limited government, limited taxes, states rights, individual self-reliance, etc)

I agree with your observation on Republicans and social issues. I think the Republicans need to better articulate their positions on social issues -- or not take positions at all. There are sound reasons why the "conservative" position on social issues may be the correct one, but taking a dogmatic approach turns people off.

I like Rand Paul too.

Anonymous said...

The only "principals" that Palin has is how to cash in on her celebrity. Yes, it takes a lot of "principals" to walk away from elected office when the dollar signs point the way.

Anonymous said...

Interesting that we have a Democrat and Republican here, both pretty much agreeing, and both thinking of switching parties.

I'm seriously seeing the need for nonpartisan elections. I don't see a realistic chance of a third party ever catching on in a serious way under the current system.

The problem is like Tip O'Neill said, "All politics is local." And here it is VERY local. The city Democrats are full of crooks and totally disorganized. But on the county level, it's the Democrats that are the fiscally conservative ones and the only ones acting as a loyal opposition to the status quo. It's so frustrating.

I guess you have to figure out which level you want to focus on. I've been focused on city politics the past two years and that has led to my disgust with the Dems. But I really want to switch my focus back to taking over the county legislature, which is why I'm hesitant to switch to Rep. With all of the Gerrymandering and tens of thousands of dollars more in spending, the GOP still only has a 13-10 majority. That's a swing of two seats for the first ever Dem majority. With two Republicans in Utica ( North and South), and the Oriskany seat being a solid pick-up for Dems, there's no reason we can't pick-up at least three seats in 2015. Especially with the Mayor, County Executive and DA races on the ballot that will bring out more voters in Utica. I think that should be our main focus.

As for nationally, I give up. They're all bought and paid. I see no difference other than the public rhetoric. In the end, the policies mainly stay the same. They're all corporatists, not liberals or conservatives.


Anonymous said...

Corpoatists? No, a band of thieves selling themselves out to the highest bidder is more like it. This crowd will never change the system that in itself, keeps them in power.

Anonymous said...

The idea that Republicans are somehow responsible for the horrendous Obamacare program is silly, at best. And, to then switch topics to throw in Iraq and the rest is plainly goofy. One has nothing to do with the other. The facts of ObamaCare are clear; 1. The law was flawed by the outset, it sought to defy the law of supply and demand which is impossible. If the Obamas and Gillibrands of the world did not understand this, they are dumber than we thought. Chances are they did understand what they were doing.2. As such, they all lied to pass the bill and to hoodwink a trusting public prior to an election, 3. Since no Republican voted for the bill, they bear zero responsibility for it. 4. Incompetency reigns when in this day and age three years and a billion dollars cannot produce a functioning web site.5. This awful law was and is designed for political purpose, not health,6. In this respect the parties were and are not the same, one gave us ObamaCare, the other did not.

Anonymous said...

Silly comments. One party gave us ObamaCare. They are obviously not the same. What is a "corporatist"? Someone who supports corporations? Are all of our corporations who just employ millions of people evil, not worthy of support? Do you not really mean crony capititalism which is far different? Me thinks some brains were muddled in the cold of Occupy Utica!

Anonymous said...

The comments about Oneida County political parties are funny; talk about no difference. Haven't most budgets and bills been passed by the majority of both parties for decades?

Dave said...

I almost never get personal about politicians. However.
Kirsten Gillibrand, nee Tina Rutnick before she entered public life, comes from a long line of Albany politicians. I have found her distasteful since she bleached her hair, changed her name and was appointed ... appointed ... by Governor David Patterson of all people .... appointed to a level of national responsibility the likes of which have been borne by Lincoln, Adlai Stevenson and yes, unfortunately Joseph McCarthy and John Kerry.
Where was I? I don't like her.
She has her talents, however, and you can see why she is sent out as the smiling pit bull patron saint of lost causes. As a member of the Senate so junior and unaccomplished it's a wonder her office isn't in a broom closet under the stairwell, it falls to her to be the spokesman of hope for one Democrat carcass after another. I can see her as a surgeon telling a bereaved loved one that the bright side was there would be no hospital charges after today.